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(31-07-2010 04:58 )Mister Gummidge Wrote: [ -> ]Liverpool were substantially weakened with Alonso in Madrid, Gerrard in the hole and Torres missing. That loss wouldn't have been felt as keenly, had he played Benayoun or Babel in the hole and played Gerrard in the midfield playmaker role he fills with such class and consistency.

I was gonna point out the reason Liverpool but more so Gerrard were shit last season was the obvious no Alonso but Gummidge has done it here. For me this puts a stop to this whole debate, Alonso & Mascherano were in my opinion & will alway be the best midfield partnership the premier league has seen (yes i know gnp Ince & Redknapp, shut up gummidge!!!) they fitted the system & Gerrard & Torres perfectly the season we finished second they were on fire (when not injured), but without Xabi Liverpool will never be able to play 2-3-1, 4-4-2 i just don't see it as a starting option, yes it will make the squad bigger as we'll have only 2 centre mid's but we don't have any natural wingers, Cole, Babel & maxi will all want to cut in & Kuyt & Jovanovic 4-4-2 right & left wing errr no!!!.
4-3-3 is the most common formation to play for all the top teams nowadays, like i keep saying especially for Liverpool as every player can then play in their natural positions & with the type of players we have the tactic of using the little 3 man triangles all over the pitch to both win back the ball & quickly pass & move it forward will be much esier & more effective, & lightweight players like Babel & Aquilani will not look too ineffective when we don't have the ball, look at Nani & Benayoun on the ball they look dangerous but without it they may as well just sit down & wait for it.

Mister Gummadge have you done any coaching badges or do you coach??? just curious as you seem to like to talk a technical game.

I just hope it is sold to the right people, with footballing knowledge and passion. Not just greedy businessmen who don't understand the culture and pleasure of the game.

Pray away for Modric Mister Gummidge.You can have him.
You can explain away til your blue in the face about him, Cahill,Kalou,Robinho and Krancjar being as good as Gerrard in the hole but i can't have it.
Call it what u like.Club bias you said.Fair play. I'll have Steven.How u you think you know his thought process is beyond me fella..Are you actually Derren Brown?lol

Milner in my view played in centre mid for the majority of last season.Not in the hole.
He made forward runs and looked to break into the box from the middle,but he did't play in the hole?
Didn't O'neil go with Agbonlahor and Carew up top almost all year?

I agree Benitez could have dealt with the loss of Alonso much better.He should have kept Keane and put Steven in the centre.
It was his fault Alonso left in the first place.He tried to get Barry in to replace him after 1 poor season.
He done the same shit with Robbie Keane and Riera.Rafa is a stuborn man.Glad to see the back of him now.

Last year is well and truely gone from my mind.
Im not surprised that a united fan would want to hang onto it for as long as possible.
But that's part and parcel of supporting one of Britains two biggest clubs.It's nothing new.

Next year we won't be so easy to pick apart Mister Gummidge.
.

@Mitchell - I have family reasons for talking a tactical game. It's how I was taught, from being a toddler

Now your point about 4-4-2 being a dead formation... Spain very often deploy a modified 4-4-2, especially when Torres and Villa are both fully fit, Germany play a version of 4-4-2, Bayern reached the CL final playing 4-4-2 exactly the way Hodgson always deploys it, and Fulham, that's Fulham for crying out loud, reached the Europa final playing 4-4-2, where they were beaten by an Atletico side who also play 4-4-2. Real Madrid play a 4-4-2 reminiscent in shape of the old Brazilian model (some would call it 4-2-4, but you end up with 4-4-2 out of possession, so it all works out the same) and Spurs play a 4-4-2 as do Sevilla.. How many midfielders you put in a side, 3 or 4 or 5, is less important than how they utilise space. The days of the top teams playing two Gerrard style midfielders with two traditional wingers outside them are long gone, but with a specialist holding player, a specialist playmaker and two wingers willing to cut inside and take advantage of the fact that very few full-backs are genuine defenders these days, then 4-4-2 is still very much alive and well. It survives because it's versatile. If you play split strikers, and hard working wingers then it can become 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-2-4 or any other variation based on a flat back four that you care to name, as the game situation demands.

The key to success with it, is to have players in the creative positions willing to accept that they'll have to work hard to a drilled game plan. Maxi will do that gladly if he stays, Cole's days as a lazy show pony are long behind him, Jovanovic isn't afraid of a shift, nor is Kuyt (although I'd argue for Kuyt to go back to outright centre forward as cover for the injury prone Torres) and I think Babel will come good if given a run in the side. Find a left back, a covering right back, a loose forward (or another winger and play Cole, Jovanovic or Babel behind the striker) and give the kid Pacheco a run in the squad, then Hodgson has a top four side if the players back him and his methods. If not, then 2011/2012 will be the season they break back into the top four, after he rebuilds and tweaks a little to suit how he always lines his teams up. He will line up 4-4-2 ( or 4-4-1-1/4-1-3-1-1 if you prefer to think of it that way), what matters is how the players react to his methodology. Personally, I think it suits the current Liverpool squad perfectly with only minor tweaking needed and that should be achieved with the funds from the sales he's almost certain to make in the coming weeks. (Insua, Deggen, maybe Lucas and probably Mascherano if the rumours are to be believed)

Sidenote: I would say that Keane & Scholes and Petit & Viera were better for certain, and that Hamann & Gerrard, Di Matteo & Wise (spits) and Batty & Lee were arguably equal to Mascherano & Alonso as a central midfield pairing. That's probably an issue for another thread, though

@ groundnpound - A footballer's thought processes are easy to see. Just look at him play the game. Watch Gerrard play in central midfield, with the whole game ahead of him plus time to decide what he wants to do and he's damned near untouchable, watch him play as a loose forward without Torres ahead of him and see him flounder and try to make up for in effort and hit and hope long range shots what he lacks in natural affinity for the role. You seem to think I'm saying Gerrard is rubbish, I'm not. I'm saying that as a second striker, he's no better than "good". In central midfield, I think he's one of the very best around.

For Milner, he played as the forward prong of a loosely diamond shaped midfield, with two out and out strikers ahead of him, putting him in exactly the same place as a dropped off striker with two traditional central midfielders behind him. It doesn't matter if you're designated as central midfield or second striker on the team sheet, if you end up in the same positions and making the same late runs, does it? It's not like Gerrard's goals last season came from goal poaching in the manner of Torres or Rooney, they came from late runs into the box.

Ha! i think grounnpound's on a rampage over this Gerrard situation, that Ibiza sun must of got to his head.

Gummidge, i don't see Lucas being sold, especially as he was given the captain's armband for the last 2 games, like i said given the chance to play in a natural position where he can make forward runs & just fill in on the defensive duties rather than carry them out primarily he'll be a good player, & from what i've seen of Aquilani i'd rather he went to Fiorentina for £12m (don't see that either) & Jay Spearing be given a chance.

As for the players goin with Hodgson's methods, it may take Babel & Aquilani the hole season to do that at the mo both are very one dimensional,
in a 4-4-2 formation Babel has a lot to learn, the only position he will be comfortable in is behind Torres as he won't have to do much?

I take your point on the 4-4-2 formation, but i still think it's a bit shit & wanna see Liverpool make a go of 4-3-3. Some of the teams you pointed out line up 4-4-2 but goin forward play 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 like Arsenal, my point on it being outdated was meant interms of teams going forward with the type of players they have i.e Liverpool have a lot of central style players, each to their own and all that i suppose.

A Chinese consortium are currently holding talks with the Royal Bank of Scotland over a potential takeover of Liverpool.

Kenneth Huang, a former Wall Street stockbroker, is leading the consortium described to be offering “serious money” by sources close to the negotiations.
Current reports suggest that Huang is currently meeting with RBS after already speaking to Anfield officials about a potential takeover.
Star striker Fernando Torres, who returns to training on Monday, will also be asked to wait to make a decision about his future until after negotiations between the consortium and RBS are complete.
The consortium is believed to be backed by a major sovereign fund with much greater financial power than Manchester City’s Abu Dhabi-based owners.
The deal would ensure that RBS recoup all of the £237 million Liverpool currently owe, with the consortium planning to clear the club completely of debt.
Sources close to Huang have said that the consortium are keen to push a deal through quickly in order to make use of the current transfer window, with plans to offer Roy Hodgson a significant war chest to ensure Liverpool break back in to the top four.
Huang would want to push on plans for a new stadium as soon as possible, something originally planned by Tom Hicks and George Gillett before the financial crisis made it hard for the American duo to borrow the capital needed for a new ground in Stanley Park.
But a deal may be scuppered by Gillett, who has reopened negotiations with ex-Syrian footballer Yahya Kirdi—the man believed to be the face of another major consortium interested in buying the Merseyside club.
Should RBS accept the offer from the Chinese consortium it would end Hicks and Gillett’s spell in charge of Liverpool, a tenure dominated by power struggles with former manager Rafael Benitez and serious financial turmoil.

I especially like the Part that says The consortium is believed to be backed by a major sovereign fund with much greater financial power than Manchester City’s Abu Dhabi-based owners. Hope this is true.

Im not on a rampage lol Just a passionate Red.
Ive played football and been to Anfield since i could walk
Theres about 10 Jose Mourinho's in my family if you know what i mean lol They all think they're coaches!
Fair play to Mister Gummidge.I like SOME of his knowledge of the game.He knows what he's talking about.
Pity he aint a real Red.
Good luck to him.

Basically the chinese lad is attempting to buy the debt from the 2 cowboys.
Giving him and his partner full control of the club.
Then the big money from his partners will hopefully flow through the club giving Roy some quality funds.
The new stadium is also at the top of his to do list.

Good too see Fernando back.