(21-06-2014 06:35 )babelover48 Wrote: [ -> ]If you took time out Fernandez and listened to a piece I mentioned earlier in the thread featuring Stuart Pearce on 'Talksport' , this is exactly what 'Psycho' is talking about!! I couldn't believe 17 Under-21 players pulled out of a major U - 21 tournament just to go on a summer tour with their various clubs. And what experience has Luke Shaw got out of being in Brazil other than experiencing a different culture, but not even being on the pitch? It is highly likely the way things are going that he cuild be one of many young talented players that may never grace the World Cup again.
At European level he will maybe a part of international success, but that may be a far as international success is concerned he will get.
And I think it really does look as if the club versus country row extends right down to this age group. Surely it is better for our U-21 to be getting that tournament experience than going off with their clubs abroad? It will be sad if the current U-17 team are pulled the same way once they enter that age group range. Look at Germany and how many of their side have come through from that same age. Why can't clubs leave our kids alone at international level until they have done at least one U-21 tournament?
Yeah I listened to Stuart Pearce. I have to say, it was mind blowing some of the stuff he was saying. The things you have pointed out, like young players pulling out of under-21 tournaments in favour of pre-season tours.
I have heard many dissections of England's performance. But this one really hits the nail on the head. I was wrong to say that foreign domination of the Premier League is THE problem. It's more just an indicator that there IS a problem. The national team being average at best, is another. The clubs have too much power.
Fast-tracking players through the youth system seems to be the root of the issue. The thing that ties all these problems together. Maybe it goes even deeper. Maybe younger players don't see the attraction with playing for England. They see the team lose, and the absolute backlash that results, and they think, 'Fvck that! I'll go on pre-season!'
(21-06-2014 20:31 )hugh_g_rection Wrote: [ -> ] (21-06-2014 06:35 )babelover48 Wrote: [ -> ]If you took time out Fernandez and listened to a piece I mentioned earlier in the thread featuring Stuart Pearce on 'Talksport' , this is exactly what 'Psycho' is talking about!! I couldn't believe 17 Under-21 players pulled out of a major U - 21 tournament just to go on a summer tour with their various clubs. And what experience has Luke Shaw got out of being in Brazil other than experiencing a different culture, but not even being on the pitch? It is highly likely the way things are going that he cuild be one of many young talented players that may never grace the World Cup again.
At European level he will maybe a part of international success, but that may be a far as international success is concerned he will get.
And I think it really does look as if the club versus country row extends right down to this age group. Surely it is better for our U-21 to be getting that tournament experience than going off with their clubs abroad? It will be sad if the current U-17 team are pulled the same way once they enter that age group range. Look at Germany and how many of their side have come through from that same age. Why can't clubs leave our kids alone at international level until they have done at least one U-21 tournament?
Yeah I listened to Stuart Pearce. I have to say, it was mind blowing some of the stuff he was saying. The things you have pointed out, like young players pulling out of under-21 tournaments in favour of pre-season tours.
I have heard many dissections of England's performance. But this one really hits the nail on the head. I was wrong to say that foreign domination of the Premier League is THE problem. It's more just an indicator that there IS a problem. The national team being average at best, is another. The clubs have too much power.
Fast-tracking players through the youth system seems to be the root of the issue. The thing that ties all these problems together. Maybe it goes even deeper. Maybe younger players don't see the attraction with playing for England. They see the team lose, and the absolute backlash that results, and they think, 'Fvck that! I'll go on pre-season!'
A great argument unless you stop to consider that the players might have little or no say in the matter. Their clubs might insist they go on the pre-season tours. Most clubs use these tours to get players match fit for the coming season and see internationals as a hindrance. While on a club tour the players receive the amount and quality of training, practice and rest that their manager determines necessary. The clubs have no control over their players while away at an international tournament that is so near to the start of the new season. It must be remembered that the clubs pay their wages and potentially lose out if a valuable asset is injured while on international duty.
Phew thats more like it had me worried then
(21-06-2014 20:43 )bytor Wrote: [ -> ]A great argument unless you stop to consider that the players might have little or no say in the matter. Their clubs might insist they go on the pre-season tours. Most clubs use these tours to get players match fit for the coming season and see internationals as a hindrance. While on a club tour the players receive the amount and quality of training, practice and rest that their manager determines necessary. The clubs have no control over their players while away at an international tournament that is so near to the start of the new season. It must be remembered that the clubs pay their wages and potentially lose out if a valuable asset is injured while on international duty.
I'm sure that that is a perfectly fair assessment of the situation and the clubs can't be blamed for acting in their own best interests. They are all just businesses after all.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that a part of the problem is a cultural one among us supporters. Football is so tribal that in the perennial club versus country debates, supporters tend to side with their club, especially if it involves under-17 and under-21 tournaments that nobody seems to care about.
So clubs have literally nothing to lose by constantly throwing spanners in the FA works. They protect their valuable assets that way, keep players in the club 'fold', and they don't get the least bit of backlash from their supporters or the media.
It is wishful thinking, I know, but I would love to see a more continental or South American outlook here, even among the supporters and the media. I.e. one where country comes before club - without question or hesitation - and where the clubs AT A MINIMUM get a bit of a PR black eye whenever they refuse to play ball on these issues.
Great game particularly the second half, both Germany and Ghana both went for it
(21-06-2014 19:33 )Joey 27 Wrote: [ -> ]hanson finally turned up then
Alan Hansen's first appearance for the BBC in this World Cup was Colombia-Ivory Coast on Thursday. So today was his 3rd day.
what was he wearing and did he have a watch on?
how many match of the day appearances has hansen made?
I think the Germans could have had at least another couple of dummies on that free kick.
Was quite funny looking with the four run ups. Is that a record?