(26-02-2014 16:24 )malicious fan Wrote: [ -> ]I can understand that about what you said about fergie totally and they did the right thing keeping him which has been proved. but to go from champions by how many points to losing in cups against swansea and sunderland, losing how many home games, maybe being knocked out of europe by olympiakos,to me the players arent playing for him, usually a decline happens slowly but this seems to be happening so quickly, and bytor this is not a dig ok. only time will tell if they keep him or not and if he achieves success but u know more about football than what i do but if i was an owner of a football club i wouldnt give him all this money the media are saying to rebuild a team and i know its his first season but he had everything there to start with bytor, he had all the ingredients, he didnt have to start at the bottom and build man utd like fergie had to, fair point yes? everything was there for him from the start, he had a squad of champions and hes took them at the minute to 6th place and i know other teams have improved but to go down that far within 7 months, then something isnt working but if the players arent playing for him then they must take some blame as well.
Ferguson was a one off in being able to get the best out of the squad. Most United fans have had concerns for the last few years over the lack of strength in certain areas. My point is I just think it's too early to condemn Moyes. Whoever stepped in after Fergie was always going to struggle.
Don't get me wrong if we are indifferent next season then something drastic will need to be done but I think Moyes has to stamp his authority on a squad of his own making after a clear out. Vidic is already off in the summer and Ferdinand hasn't been at the top for at least two seasons. We still have quality in De Gea, Rooney and Van Persie. The likes of Nani and Valencia are up there but lack consistency and then there are Kagawa and Hernandez who never get enough chances. There are some gems in the squad with Januzaj and Jones destined to be top players but the likes of Smalling, Buttner and Anderson are simply not good enough to play for any club in the top tier in my opinion.
PS I never claim to know more than anyone else about football. You know just as much as me and make good posts I just post my opinions.
no bytor that wasnt a dig making out u claim more about football than me i meant that as genuine i really did. this is your club and u know alot more about it than what i do and football in general, thats a compliment 2 u
i understand everything u say about looking at next season with more of his own players in the squad after the summer but the way its going maybe the likes of kroos, vidal and others who have been mentioned, what if they dont want to play for man utd or david moyes? does he then go out and get other players like 3rd or 4th choice behind the ones who are being talked about? then if they dont do it for him next season does he then say "well kroos and reus and the ones i wanted didnt want to come so i had to buy these players instead" i think he cant win in my opinion!
There is a two pronged problem....first the squad has peaked and is now about to fall apart. Secondly while they need to spend millions to rebuild no world class player will commit to a club not playing any form of European football next season...you won't develop in a team going downhill faster than Franz Klammer...Man U have had their years in the sun, like AC Milan, Liverpool etc. Nobody or no team is invincible forever.
(26-02-2014 19:33 )malicious fan Wrote: [ -> ]no bytor that wasnt a dig making out u claim more about football than me i meant that as genuine i really did. this is your club and u know alot more about it than what i do and football in general, thats a compliment 2 u
i understand everything u say about looking at next season with more of his own players in the squad after the summer but the way its going maybe the likes of kroos, vidal and others who have been mentioned, what if they dont want to play for man utd or david moyes? does he then go out and get other players like 3rd or 4th choice behind the ones who are being talked about? then if they dont do it for him next season does he then say "well kroos and reus and the ones i wanted didnt want to come so i had to buy these players instead" i think he cant win in my opinion!
That has to be a worry but one that only time will tell. While there are concerns for sure I still think it's too early to be sounding the death knell for United just yet.
The problem is in midfield, it seems to be too passive most of the time, and when cleverely's playing, well its like playing with 10 men. Fellaini may not be the greatest technically but at least he offers physicality and runs into the box. It isn't all Moyes's fault however his team selections don't help. If/until we get decent wingers in, I think he should play kagawa and mata (or januzaj) together in a more central position, with the fullbacks giving width, like city do. Oh and Hernandez needs a game too, wellbeck isn't as useless as cleverely but hes still rubbish.
Bad luck+new manager+bad lineup/tactics+better opposition = midtable united.
(28-02-2014 20:44 )whorelover Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is in midfield, it seems to be too passive most of the time, and when cleverely's playing, well its like playing with 10 men. Fellaini may not be the greatest technically but at least he offers physicality and runs into the box. It isn't all Moyes's fault however his team selections don't help. If/until we get decent wingers in, I think he should play kagawa and mata (or januzaj) together in a more central position, with the fullbacks giving width, like city do. Oh and Hernandez needs a game too, wellbeck isn't as useless as cleverely but hes still rubbish.
Bad luck+new manager+bad lineup/tactics+better opposition = midtable united.
We all have our answers on what he should do. He has inherited many of the problems he is facing but he has added to them through his inexperience of managing at this level. He is a good manager and will get the time and, I believe, a massive transfer budget in the summer to turn it round but he needs to sort out one or two dilemma's.
Midfield has been a problem for several seasons, evidenced by the return of an aging Paul Scholes a couple of seasons ago. I was shocked to see that this season Carrick, Cleverley, Fletcher, Kagawa and Fellaini have scored just 2 goals in the premiership and not had a single assist. That is shocking for a United team.
He bought quality in Mata for £37 million but Moyes has to decide how and where to play him effectively as Rooney plays in the same area of the pitch...and he can't leave an £85 million asset out of the team.
He has to crack down too on media leaks from one or two players. All this does is fan the flames with the gossip hungry media who love to do nothing more than second guess managers.
Letting Vidic announce his decision to leave in the summer was perhaps an error too. He is consistently one of our best players but will that continue in a season that has more or less slipped away?
Finally for me the biggest lack of judgement was the decision to get rid of the experienced back room team of Meulensteen, Phelan and Steele and replace their experience and stability with....Phil Neville.
Fergie was so good that people have overrated some average players because of what HE got out of them. People forget that already and he's only been gone a few months. So now with the same players people expect similar results - but this was Fergie were talking about. He could of got top 4 with the first 11 guys off the next bus! Moyes should be doing better but it's a snowball effect once its starts to go wrong because it's a headline every week and because of that everybody gets anxious and makes more mistakes, which leads to more bad press....etc
United have too many good squad players and not enough top class, first name on the team sheet players. RVP, Rooney, Mata (not settled yet) and De Gea are about the only ones. The rest are squad players at best. And as good as fergie was, he left Moyes with a lot of problems: No midfield, an ageing defence, a world class strikeforce with nobody to supply the bullets.... and they're just for starters. It'll take time and money to put right and you don't always get that these days. He should at utd though with Fergie, Gill and Charlton still there.
(28-02-2014 23:56 )bytor Wrote: [ -> ]We all have our answers on what he should do. He has inherited many of the problems he is facing but he has added to them through his inexperience of managing at this level. He is a good manager and will get the time and, I believe, a massive transfer budget in the summer to turn it round but he needs to sort out one or two dilemma's.
Midfield has been a problem for several seasons, evidenced by the return of an aging Paul Scholes a couple of seasons ago. I was shocked to see that this season Carrick, Cleverley, Fletcher, Kagawa and Fellaini have scored just 2 goals in the premiership and not had a single assist. That is shocking for a United team.
He bought quality in Mata for £37 million but Moyes has to decide how and where to play him effectively as Rooney plays in the same area of the pitch...and he can't leave an £85 million asset out of the team.
He has to crack down too on media leaks from one or two players. All this does is fan the flames with the gossip hungry media who love to do nothing more than second guess managers.
Letting Vidic announce his decision to leave in the summer was perhaps an error too. He is consistently one of our best players but will that continue in a season that has more or less slipped away?
Finally for me the biggest lack of judgement was the decision to get rid of the experienced back room team of Meulensteen, Phelan and Steele and replace their experience and stability with....Phil Neville.
Moyes is a good manager, just finished arguing with a friend of mine who claims Martinez will be much better than he was at Everton, he might be, but I think he'll find it hard to match the consistency Moyes bought at Everton, top 8 finishes consistently is no easy task.
Agreed, there were many problems, its probably why Fergie quit when he did, United only won the title last season because everyone else was inconsistent. As for Mata, as good as he is, I think he-along with Kagawa are being wasted at the moment
Yes, getting rid of the back room was a mistake, change of chief executive didn't help either.
(03-03-2014 02:43 )whorelover Wrote: [ -> ] (28-02-2014 23:56 )bytor Wrote: [ -> ]We all have our answers on what he should do. He has inherited many of the problems he is facing but he has added to them through his inexperience of managing at this level. He is a good manager and will get the time and, I believe, a massive transfer budget in the summer to turn it round but he needs to sort out one or two dilemma's.
Midfield has been a problem for several seasons, evidenced by the return of an aging Paul Scholes a couple of seasons ago. I was shocked to see that this season Carrick, Cleverley, Fletcher, Kagawa and Fellaini have scored just 2 goals in the premiership and not had a single assist. That is shocking for a United team.
He bought quality in Mata for £37 million but Moyes has to decide how and where to play him effectively as Rooney plays in the same area of the pitch...and he can't leave an £85 million asset out of the team.
He has to crack down too on media leaks from one or two players. All this does is fan the flames with the gossip hungry media who love to do nothing more than second guess managers.
Letting Vidic announce his decision to leave in the summer was perhaps an error too. He is consistently one of our best players but will that continue in a season that has more or less slipped away?
Finally for me the biggest lack of judgement was the decision to get rid of the experienced back room team of Meulensteen, Phelan and Steele and replace their experience and stability with....Phil Neville.
Moyes is a good manager, just finished arguing with a friend of mine who claims Martinez will be much better than he was at Everton, he might be, but I think he'll find it hard to match the consistency Moyes bought at Everton, top 8 finishes consistently is no easy task.
Agreed, there were many problems, its probably why Fergie quit when he did, United only won the title last season because everyone else was inconsistent. As for Mata, as good as he is, I think he-along with Kagawa are being wasted at the moment
Yes, getting rid of the back room was a mistake, change of chief executive didn't help either.
Yes we have had a complete regime change with both Gill and Fergie retiring. I heard that the board thought it best to take the hit of them both leaving at the same time and have a season of struggle. Next season is the real barometer.
Agree about Kagawa. That guy has real talent but never gets a real chance. Mind you we have a history of doing that. Look no further than Forlan. He couldn't help but score when at Independiente but struggled to get on the team sheet with us. Would like to see Zaha given a chance too. Baffling at times lol