The UK Babe Channels Forum

(19-05-2014 16:48 )Addison Wrote: [ -> ]

(19-05-2014 16:05 )JuanKerr Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not asking anything, nor am I trying to demonstrate anything.

So when you said "If you, I wonder," you weren't really wondering, but taking another rhetorical leak in the wind? You can't really have it both ways, if you're meaningfully trying to establish/clarify your position in a discussion.

I'm bored now.

If you want to take that as a victory, go ahead.

I think it's understandable that you've retreated to a defensive position again, since the analogy you cooked up doesn't really illuminate. Anyway, I'm getting bored, too! I'm not looking for 'a victory' as such, btw; I'm just looking to head-off a line of argument aimed at pejoratively categorising those who have been seen to be supportive of, or accepting of with equanimity, the presence of shemales on Thai Chat.

One - genuine - question for you, though (it follows on from some of the above): I was up in the early hours yesterday, when Apple turned up on Thai Chat (at about 03:00 or 03:30 or maybe a bit later?) and did one of those little impromptu (stream only?) solo stints of the sort that I think disconnected is referring to. Now, although it's a purely academic question to me in terms of having any effect on my enjoyment of the show (to paraphrase snookerloopy's line, I consider Apple beautiful, regardless), I still can't tell for sure whether Apple is female or shemale (despite one or two 'non-day show' moves, clothing stayed on throughout the time I was watching), and a flick through recent replies seems to indicate that only gruntmeister has 'nailed his colours to the mast' and said 'female.' What do you say, Juan? What's your call re. Apple's likely gender assignment? Can you tell yet? And if you can't, do you still claim it's an easy job telling all shemales apart?

I'm not familiar enough with Apple, if I'm honest. Right now I can't even picture her. Bickering aside, I genuinely do watch very infrequently these days; little more than a customary glance to see who's on.

I'll have a look through the forum to see if I can find any images of Apple, but I do admit to having to ask on here if one of the new girls who appeared some weeks ago, was naturally born. I was fairly confident she was, but just wanted confirmation. Unlike you - and read into this what you like - I could not have continued watching if it had turned out she was a ladyboy.

With most of the ladyboys, their gender sticks out like a sore thumb - at least to me.

(19-05-2014 18:38 )JuanKerr Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike you - and read into this what you like - I could not have continued watching if it had turned out she was a ladyboy.

I'm not going to read anything into it here (we've done enough of that sort of thing, already) but it is interesting to me, how this question of what's between the legs determines whether or not you can enjoy a performer. That sort of specific detail is just not a factor for me; but then, it's never been a factor when watching the natural-borns across all channels for the time I have been, either. I've just never had, for want of a better expression, a "genital fixation." (I also think that that's not the sole definer of gender). What's between the legs doesn't outrage my moral sense in any shape or form, I'm just indifferent to what exists and/or gets displayed there, as the passive viewer of a broadcast (different considerations would pertain, in a 'real life' situation, when for obvious reasons, it could become a more important question). On a purely visually level (which is the only level available to us as viewers), the body as a whole, as a totality, is what's important to me. And I can tell whether or not a shemale or natural-born will personally appeal or not pretty much the first moment I first see them, by making an instant evaluation of these external, visible criteria. I don't have to wait on a 'report' about what is or isn't dangling between the legs, before I can 'allow' myself to be turned on! Some of the shemales hit the spot as a whole (Balloon, Nadia); some don't (Cindy, Helen). Some natural-borns do (Anne, Kathy); some don't (Ice, Cherry). I evaluate on a case-by-case basis. It's just a bit of a shame for you that I can 'choose' to enjoy Apple already, because I'm not sweating on which pigeon-hole s/he's eventually going to wind up being put in.

Well, I dare say all that makes you a bigger man than me, I dunno.

As you say, we're now in danger of going around in circles, but I simply cannot ignore a person's natural gender in the same way you can, and I still have my opinions on what the ability to do so, says about a person.

May I ask you a sincere and somewhat personal question now? How far does this attitude of yours extend? I don't want to get too crude - there's a time and place for that - but would you indulge, sexually, with the ladyboys you mention? And more to the point, and I'm afraid this is where I do need to be crude, what would you happily partake in, beyond foreplay, presuming the tackle is still present at this point?

(19-05-2014 18:23 )Addison Wrote: [ -> ]I was up in the early hours yesterday, when Apple turned up on Thai Chat (at about 03:00 or 03:30 or maybe a bit later?) and did one of those little impromptu (stream only?) solo stints of the sort that I think disconnected is referring to.

How's a guy supposed to get a decent night's sleep with this going on

(19-05-2014 20:21 )JuanKerr Wrote: [ -> ]How far does this attitude of yours extend? [...] would you indulge, sexually, with the ladyboys you mention?

It extends as far as watching the show (although, like you, I now watch much less than before) and enjoying the content provided by both shemales and females, and no further. I've never visited a strip club or massage parlour in Britain or Europe, so I can't see myself travelling all the way to Thailand to do so! A meeting in the flesh, therefore, isn't ever going to happen. I can say I was never able to enjoy the shemale performances on the TC hardcore show when it was still going. Openly displayed male genitalia juxtaposed with an otherwise female form negatively affected my enjoyment to a fatal degree, somehow - probably because my response to shemales I see as being (if pushed to categorise it for the sake of convenience) a component of a straight rather than bi or gay sensibility; when the visual information is more directly presented and starts to become too incongruent or contradictory (when disharmony occurs and the illusion 'shatters'), I stop responding. The day show as is, with its restrictions, is the ideal presentational format, for me.

Edit:

Simply put: for me, the TC shemales need to keep their pants on! The natural-borns don't necessarily need to keep theirs on, but by the same token, if they take them off, it's not going to have any effect on the 'intensity' of my response one way or the other!

Thanks for the response.

And what have the last few pages taught us? That it all boils down to the old adage 'horses for courses'? That not everyone who is turned off by shemales is a homophobe? That we should all take more of a 'couldn't give a fuck' attitude towards other people's sexual preferences?

Probably all of the above.

(20-05-2014 02:12 )JuanKerr Wrote: [ -> ]And what have the last few pages taught us? That it all boils down to the old adage 'horses for courses'? That not everyone who is turned off by shemales is a homophobe? That we should all take more of a 'couldn't give a fuck' attitude towards other people's sexual preferences.

That's all I was trying to say in my original post!

(20-05-2014 02:12 )JuanKerr Wrote: [ -> ][W]hat have the last few pages taught us? That not everyone who is turned off by shemales is a homophobe?

Without wanting to fire up again a discussion we're all getting bored of, this middle 'lesson' (expressed as one of those rhetorical questions again!) is too loaded to leave to stand, as is. Yeah, another arid essay comin' up, sorry!

'Transphobia' (homophobia specifically directed at transgenders) finds expression in the same range of negative responses that other forms of homophobia do ("antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion or hatred"). While I'm not claiming it's impossible for someone to be 'turned off' by shemales not to be categorised as homophobic, it's hard to imagine a single homophobe existing who would ever be, of their own volition, remotely passively accepting of shemales, much less ever (publicly!) admit to being turned on by one, and so, if you see yourself as non-homophobic but choose to keep giving voice to your 'turned-offness' unbidden, you're going to leave yourself in a tricky position.

The best way to show you're non-transphobic is to demonstrate ongoing tolerance and acceptance of their right to be featured on a show along with non-shemales. Any dissent shown in the form of disparagement, however mildly worded or implicit or oblique, generally aimed at shemales as a gender sub-genre, or aimed at them by proxy, via antipathy shown towards their supporters, whether 'active' or 'passive,' is always going to be leave itself open to being construable as homophobic.

If you try to turn this into a 'battle,' negative comments about shemales will be seen, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, as trying to assert the 'rightness' of heteronormative behaviour and attitudes; i.e. a form of homophobia (discrimination based on disgust or fear or a misplaced, overarching feeling that heterosexual norms should be the dominant ones - which often takes the form of the 'breeders' argument' when homophobic people with religious convictions wade in!).

Better to incorporate tolerance of shemales within a more general stand for inclusivity and variety. Or, to put it more cheekily, while

(20-05-2014 02:12 )JuanKerr Wrote: [ -> ]we should all take more of a 'couldn't give a fuck' attitude towards other people's sexual preferences[,]

it's incumbent upon those sailing close to the wind of transphobia to be seen to be giving less of a fuck than those who have been seen to be openly shemale accepting!

You summoned the spectre of racism earlier, Juan. If anyone had expressed views and allusions about the ethnic background or however you want to phrase it of a performer or number of performers, in ways similar to those used by some in this thread to express their antagonism towards the presence of shemales on the shows, there would be no grounds for a debate.