US Election & Presidency

(23-02-2017 16:58 )MR PERFECT Wrote:  Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity.

very well said.

As someone born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus I thank god that I am not American at this time.

(23-02-2017 16:15 )HannahsPet Wrote:  its not really contentious only to morons who think Transexuals are deviants who will molest there kids

Which means it's contentious

And we are not talking about transexual but transgender. Transexuals may or may not be transgender, transgender feel they are not in the right sex body from birth, that is, they are true boys/ girls but born into girls/ boys bodies, which some transexual people think. Transexuals can reject the term transgender becasue they think their gender has not changed but their bodies have been corrected if they have had sugery. Others fully accepting they are girls but have mens genetials that they use to the full. Baily Jay for instance, she is a transexual, married to a male, mainly has sex and sex scenes with males but will have sex with woman, and recently she seems to have had her penis and breast enlarged; erm, so I'm told.

But I'm not speaking about either, I am talking of hetersexuals PRETENDING to be transgender or transexual. Equally, females being uncomfortable with fully physiological males entering the toilets when they are in, who apparently have no say on the issue.There is a genuine issues there, but you've given it your usual spin to fit what you want.

Moreover I was talking about the way the press jumps on everything and everyhting to attack Trump with.

(23-02-2017 16:58 )MR PERFECT Wrote:  Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity.

Everyone?

(23-02-2017 17:29 )MR PERFECT Wrote:  As someone born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus I thank god that I am not American at this time.

What has Trump done to people with both of those conditions?

How much would it have cost your for treatment, in Trumps as opposed to other US presidents terms?

^ I'm sure Mr Perfect will speak for himself but Trumps desire to eviscerate the Affordable Care Act which explicitly provides for people with pre-existing conditions to be able to get health insurance would mean he would not be able to get cover so that would be a real impact.

(23-02-2017 17:43 )wackawoo Wrote:  

(23-02-2017 17:29 )MR PERFECT Wrote:  As someone born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus I thank god that I am not American at this time.

What has Trump done to people with both of those conditions?

How much would it have cost your for treatment, in Trumps as opposed to other US presidents terms?

Under trump anyone considered a minority will be persecuted. I don't need treatment thanks you don't understand as usual.

Where to start, without giving myself a headache.

Stupidly long post alert.

(23-02-2017 15:27 )wackawoo Wrote:  You seem to have manipulated what I have said. When did i say LGBT was a trend? I didn't. I said heterosexual people (mostly women) thinking that LGBT is the most fashionable thing there is is a trend. The woman who clamber for a 'gay best friend' as if they are fashion accesories is a trend, programs like big brother and 'on the side' where it's compulsory to have gay people or be highly camp is a trend, TV programs in general having a gay person is a trend; this aweful fad of a lot of 'gay' people being ultra camp, that too is a trend which, to me, is putting gay issues back 50 years. Being gay is just being a person who happens to go out with the same sex. Being uber camp simply did not exist even 15 years ago, except on TV (julian clarey, Larry Greyson etc) Have you ever notice that no females act like screaming queens carrying box sets of musicals around under their arms?

No manipulation, '' long before LGBT became to upmost in trend, this has only happened in the past ten years or so'', be clear about what you mean in future. Don't claim you elaborated further, you said no such thing in the post I replied to.

Quote:There is a reason for that.

Quote:You and your twisted logic, nightmare, you said ''a bloke claiming to be transgender'', when at its core this is about children (school age teens) who live as/identify as trans, big difference to what you're implying. This is about both sexes identifying as the other, not male creeps trying to con people so they can perve on girls in showers and bogs, these people should be treated with respect and need protected from the kind of people who try to force them into being the gender they were born, rather than the one they feel/identify as.

You seem to think these things are black and white.

The use of the toilets is for anybody who claims to be transgender, it is not age specific. That fact you state it is aimed at 'children'/teens is even more of a problem with them being more vunerable. What if a teacher at the school claimed to be transgender and needed to go to the toilet? would they be discriminated due to their age? and it IS a claim. How many people clamied to be transgender 10, 15, 20 years ago and more? as oppose to now it's more in the media? course they be some spin about the enligtened ones, but you simply didn't hear about it back than, it existed, but it was incredibly rare. In addition, teens are generally mixed up, going through fads and crazes that makes it's exceptionally very difficult to know who is genuine and who is caught up in a trend; even though they can fully believe they are TG, they might not be; and that could lead to some very very serious problems indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgende...ssexuality

Quote:A study of Swedes estimated a ratio of 1.4:1 trans women to trans men for those requesting sex reassignment surgery and a ratio of 1:1 for those who proceeded.[106] The causes of transsexuality have been studied for decades.

I don't think these things are black and white. It's very complicated.
Yes, just because somebody claims to be transgender doesn't mean they are, so of course it could be abused, but that's not the point I'm making in my post. As I said ''If a school has a trans student, they will know if it's legit or not, it is obvious and easily fact checked with family and a doctor.'', in these circumstances it much more straightforward to offer some protection.
There is too much focus on what ifs, fake claims and possible lies of those that could, could potentially abuse it, which takes away from the fact that young and older people alike, male and female, feel trapped in the wrong body. They need support and acceptance from their family, friends and if at a school age, the school. There are many documented cases of transgender people being bullied, beaten and committing suicide. If you haven't, I suggest you find an article, interview or documentary to see just how difficult their life can be.

For example - http://www.advocate.com/politics/transge...buried-man

Quote:You need to think about just what's involved here. You tell me what it is that makes some one transgender? Is it biological? genetic? emotional? hormonal? phsychriatic? Even with post op TG, they normally claim that they 'FEEL like an x traped inside an z body', there are some theories, but nobody really knows.

You tell me. I'm not a doctor, or an expert, but it is a real thing, it's like saying is being gay biological? genetic? emotional? hormonal? physiological?
It's just who a person is. It's as simple as that, people are who they are.

Quote:

Quote:Brock the captain of the football team came out as trans, he wasn't really, but said it so he could shower with the girls, whether they liked it or not. This is what the media (certain media) are trying to push as a reason against it, when in fact the only issue is the facilities. If a school has a trans student, they will know if it's legit or not, it is obvious and easily fact checked with family and a doctor. Toilets have stalls with doors, shower times can be arranged, it's not difficult. Using the disabled toilet is disrespectful as being transgender isn't a disability and it's not a life style choice, it's who they are.

You're are not seeing the woods for the trees here, THAT IS EXACTLY what that law allows for, your too busy trotting out what you have learnt at school over TG issue to fully understand the implications.

There are alternatives, ie disabled toilets, you tried to manipulate what I have said there as well, I never once said it was a disability but it IS a practicle solution, not ideal one, but a compromise, if TG have such a problem using male or female toilets. Tell me something, what if it was females going into male toilets? still with a womans body, can you not possibly see a problem there either?

Do you think any prejudice that might happen will go away by letting a fully biological males enter female toilets and visa versa? There's a whole heap of problems that could go down, not just the females who don't feel comfortable with it (apparently irrelavant) but TG people can be opening themsleves to more not less abuse and accusation.

It is a compromise, but it's not a solution.
Do you not think a trans student who identifies as female would possibly run into issues in a male toilet and vice versa as well, bringing in laws offers added protection, so that if the school were to take the stance of them having to use the toilet of their birth gender, it would at least allow the school to take action, or the person, if they are bullied or attacked. It's about much more than having a pee or a wash after gym. They're the surface issues.

Quote:

Quote:It's not men in drag!

I have never used the word drag, don't state things i haven't. Heterosexual men do dress up as woman, it's called cross dressing. You have already given an example of how the law could be abused.

Didn't say you did. Yes I did give an example.

Quote:Now remember, I have a degree in biology and chemistry and a gold star sister with her associate partners and friends, I pretty much know a little bit about it and my sympathies are firmly with the LGBT community. You and Munch are playing the pc game, (look how you write about it, it's like you have lifted that from a TG manifesto), in this instance (especially munch) finding something to hook on to pretty much to try and score brownie points over me; the transgender thing wasn't even the main point of the thread.

Impressive, I was a bit of a skiver in school, my sister has a law degree though, so at least one of us made some effort. lol.
I won't speak for Munch, he's more than capable of defending himself, but it's not about being PC, it's about being understanding (as much as we can on such a complex issue), not scoring brownie points. You go and make a point, it's debated, right or wrong, agree or disagree, we're all just taking part in a discussion.
Although the topic isn't the point of the thread, the fact they are changing policy and removing protection for trans people, is relevant.

Quote:

Quote:If you don't want your views challenged, stop posting here, or at least proof read your posts and think about how others will react.
Oh and I and the other moderators will thank any post we want, as we are allowed to have an opinion. We are members as well as mods.

I have no problems with people challangng my views, as long as they are actually the point of the post being challanged, this is where by far the majority of problems come from. My post was about the 'fair media' vilifying Trump over revoking a law that could be open to all sorts of abuse, you people have changed it into a spat about TG rights (queue accusation of homophobia from some quaters), jumping on the pc bandwagon, trying to finger wag at a person who has been (though mostly heterosexual) associated with that world for 35 years and more. Starting in a world that was extremely hostile to LGBT. So if you REALLY want to challange me over gay issue be my guest.

We're just debating a few things. You mentioned you sister is gay, so you have first hand knowledge of how difficult things can be, my experience is knowing gay people, so not the same.

Quote:Yes, you can have your point, (and this is more than welcome from my point of view) but that also means people should be able to point out problems and bias with your post too. Admin and mods, if they want to get involved should expect and accept they they too can be critized. They should not be treated as being special and nobody should critize anyhting they say, or point out side taking, which seems to be the jist of it with one of your mods at the moment. I'm not the only one that's noticed this, I've had pm's that have noticed it too.

There use to be a Admin with a spider has the avata, that admin rarely got involved with anything and for me personally, and from my days has a mod, that is right. With all the best will in the world you cannot mod a place objectively by deffinition if you are talking sides.

Good, I'm glad we agree that I can. It is the purpose of a forum after all.
It's relative, questioning an opinion is fine, questioning moderation isn't, that's something that should be done via PM, reports and if it comes to it, with admin.
We aren't treated as if we're special, but we will defend ourselves and each other, just like we will defend our members if they are singled out by others here, or as a whole when something is posted on social media, which happens from time to time.

He is still the boss, admin, then us mods. Our job is to be involved.
An opinion isn't taking sides, it's an opinion, it doesn't mean we are biased.

Peace

If there is an issue with someone with 'male parts' entering a female bathroom, what about the situation with a post-op female?
One of the original cases that triggered this off was a state attempting to 'force' people to use the bathroom according to the sex of their birth, so a post-op female, must use a female bathroom, despite now having male genitalia. Apparently the same 'awkward' paradox!

As for using the disabled toilets as an alternative, frankly, that is no better than having people of colour use a different restroom to the whites, or sit at the back of the bus! It was precisely to avoid this kind of fucked up, neanderthal thinking and treat people as equal human beings that this ruling was brought in.

The stance of the Obama administration on this issue was a great step forward for the transgender community not just in the US, but it sent a message across the world, and was particularly significant for the young trans community that is was directed at, who are even more vulnerable.
In a stroke, that forward step has been taken away, and the trans youth of america must be made to feel less safe, somehow 'different', maybe 'wrong', and that is something that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

Another victory for prejudice, but hopefully just a temporary one.

(23-02-2017 16:58 )MR PERFECT Wrote:  Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity.

I also agree