Malaysian Airlines plane "shot down" over Ukraine

Russia is still militarily the second most powerful country on the planet and Putin's reaction to western rhetoric is to say, in effect, "Yeah? Well what are you going to do about it?"...and the answer, of course, is nothing. There will be a lot of gesturing and talk of sanctions but whilst we can go around attacking and invading countries like Iran, Libya and Afghanistan because they cannot fight back there is no way the West will take on somebody who can stand up for themselves.

Don't get me wrong - I have no time for Putin, he is a thug and a bully - but Willy Brandt's doctrine of "Realpolitik" is just as valid now as it was during the worst days of the Cold War and Russia knows it.

Ukraine's government says it has "compelling evidence" that the anti-aircraft battery that shot down the plane was not just brought in from Russia but was manned by 3 Russian army staff - who are now back in Russia and have taken the truck-mounted system back with them.

(18-07-2014 18:00 )bytor Wrote:  Just wait until the conspiracy theorists get going on this

They needn't waste their time. A compelling body of evidence leaves little doubt over who shot down the Malaysia Airlines jet. Pro-Russian separatists and Russian military personnel shot down MH17, by mistake, with a Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile launcher from the town of Snizhne. The missile system was supplied by Russia and smuggled across the border into eastern Ukraine. It was operated by 3 Russian military personnel, under the guidance of a separatist named Besler. The separatists have been busy removing evidence from the crash site as part of a plan to cover up the atrocity.

"Putin going to give every assistance" aye right! If any Russian army members were responsible for this outrage, they will now be playing for "Salt Mines United" or have been turned into fertilizer. 2018 World Cup is in Russia, time for the politicians to start Putin the boot in!!!

(20-07-2014 17:09 )Glenn Miller Wrote:  

(18-07-2014 18:00 )bytor Wrote:  Just wait until the conspiracy theorists get going on this

They needn't waste their time. A compelling body of evidence leaves little doubt over who shot down the Malaysia Airlines jet. Pro-Russian separatists and Russian military personnel shot down MH17, by mistake, with a Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile launcher from the town of Snizhne. The missile system was supplied by Russia and smuggled across the border into eastern Ukraine. It was operated by 3 Russian military personnel, under the guidance of a separatist named Besler. The separatists have been busy removing evidence from the crash site as part of a plan to cover up the atrocity.

Your conclusion may well be correct so I'm presuming you have hard evidence? Even naming names of individuals responsible for mistakenly shooting down the aircraft. I'm guessing you must have inside information to substantiate this?
Have you thought about talking to the media. This news would end the need for all the speculation they are doing from Schipol airport.

(21-07-2014 18:00 )bytor Wrote:  Your conclusion may well be correct so I'm presuming you have hard evidence? Even naming names of individuals responsible for mistakenly shooting down the aircraft. I'm guessing you must have inside information to substantiate this?

The evidence comes from the tweets informing the world that the separatists had shot down a plane and the intercepted phone calls in which they discuss what happened. You can find on youtube a conversation between the separatist commander Igor Besler and a Russian intelligence colonel in which Besler explains what happened. Besler doesn't deny that it's his voice on the recording.

In a positive development, the separatists are at long last allowing international access to the crash site and have even handed over the plane's black boxes to investigators.

(18-07-2014 22:15 )whorelover Wrote:  As for "state-sponsored terrorism", unless a state told them to target civilian planes, that state is not responsible.

That doesn't strike me as a good argument.

It seems that the separatists didn't have the know how to use the Buk missile system and that it was therefore operated by Russian military personnel.

If Russian military personnel operated the battery and shot down the plane, how is Russia not responsible?

Give "Russia Today" a look Sky channel 512. It gives a completely oppsite view of what happened.

You do realise Russia Today was created by 2 of Putin's cronies and is backed by the Russian Government, don't you?