Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

(12-12-2016 09:14 )Bandwagon Wrote:  Nice post southsidestu, but slightly misses the point IMO.
The point being; just because the EU could be cuntish with the UK, definitely doesn't mean they should, or even will for that matter
I dont think they will be looking to cut their noses off to spite their faces.

I agree with you that they should not be cuntish, as a Remainer I want the deal that gives us the best market access, continued membership of the EEA, customs union and services and I am not at all convinced that the doubling down on Britain is the best option for the EU to take, after all things that are rigid tend to break as opposed to those that are flexible.

That being said I think anyone who says that they know the outcome of this whole clusterfuck is kidding themselves. You may be right in your reading of the situation (I hope you are because that would leave the UK better off) what I am putting forward is the counter balance that says yes it could go this way but actually it might go this way and here are some reasons why our position may not be as favourable as we think and Leave politicians/media outlets that make the claim "The EU needs us more than we need them" are polluting the debate, misinforming the electorate and causing damage to the country and it's people.

(12-12-2016 17:06 )southsidestu Wrote:  That being said I think anyone who says that they know the outcome of this whole clusterfuck is kidding themselves. You may be right in your reading of the situation (I hope you are because that would leave the UK better off) what I am putting forward is the counter balance that says yes it could go this way but actually it might go this way and here are some reasons why our position may not be as favourable as we think and Leave politicians/media outlets that make the claim "The EU needs us more than we need them" are polluting the debate, misinforming the electorate and causing damage to the country and it's people.

I don't think I've seen anywhere 'the EU needs us more than we need them' arguement. But it's not easy to say the UK is a complete irrelevant to the EU because the EU as a block is so much more wealthy either. The UK is a world finantial centre, the EU is intertwined with the UK for the past 40 years, in addition, Britian may trade with EU member states that those states would not want to loose the trade with the UK. Germany, France and so on may be hit by the UK leaving, but poorer countries (who have a vote in the EU) may be hit harder, and would probably want compensation for any trade lost, but all is speculation.

Ironically, certianly on these pages, it's always the remaniners that are so convinced at how bad it is going to be, neutrals tend to think it COULD be very good indeed, but it may also not be as good as a lot of the more optimistic Brexit people seem to think.

There has to be some give and take, otherwise the UK cannot have any part of the single market and so one, but will have to make different trade agreements seperate like they will with the rest of the world.

In addition, leaving the EU isn't just about access to the single market. Britian will always have to have close ties with the rest of Europe via NATO and the UN.

The notion that the "EU needs us more than we need them" stems from our increasing trade deficit with them.
I think it's fair to say this fact does strengthen our bargaining power.
You can look at this in many ways, but the nitty-gritty facts remain the same; both sides could gain from a suitable arrangement.
Getting embroiled in a willy-waving contest will achieve nothing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35409274

Straight from the horses mouths

(12-12-2016 20:46 )southsidestu Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35409274

Straight from the horses mouths

LOL, is that it? One interveiwee in one interview in an article dated January 2016, no wonder I'd not heard it before.

Was he the same person saying billions would be put in to the NHS?

Also from the same article:

Quote:But Lord Rose told the BBC that campaigns to leave the EU had not explained how the benefits of the EU single market would be replaced.

"Those who want Britain to leave Europe cannot guarantee that Britain will retain full access to Europe's single market. They are putting the benefits at risk. Their proposed deal, whereby Britain would somehow retain access to the single market without obeying any of the rules, is a fantasy."

The prime minister, who wants the UK to stay within a reformed European Union, is pushing to renegotiate Britain's terms of membership ahead of an in/out referendum, which must be held by the end of 2017.

If agreement with other EU leaders is reached next month, a vote could potentially be held as early as June.

The last sentence of that I find very interesting, so ALL the EU leaders agreed to the UK having a referendum to leave in Feb 2016? Didn't they all get a suprise then.

(12-12-2016 18:39 )Bandwagon Wrote:  Getting embroiled in a willy-waving contest will achieve nothing.

Absolutely correct. And it has to be noted that there are some in this country who are just as capable of cutting their nose off to spite their face.

I think, however, that alot will depend on what happens in the rest of the EU in the coming year. If one, or more, other countries look like they could also be heading for the door, then they could take the view that 'cutting off their nose' might be a sacrifice worth making in order to 'save the patient'

(12-12-2016 21:07 )wackawoo Wrote:  so ALL the EU leaders agreed to the UK having a referendum to leave in Feb 2016?

No, try reading it again.

(12-12-2016 21:19 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  No, try reading it again.

I have read it again. Which vote is being refered to which is to be held up to the end of 2017 but could be has early as june past?

What did I miss read here?

Quote:If agreement with other EU leaders is reached next month, a vote could potentially be held as early as June

(12-12-2016 21:16 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  Absolutely correct. And it has to be noted that there are some in this country who are just as capable of cutting their nose off to spite their face.

Absolutely, and I guess that all depends on each individuals stance and beliefs on the whole subject.
Some people believe we don't need a deal with the EU whatsoever, and would be happy to cut all ties by this time tomorrow. The same people also believe the EU is on borrowed time, and Brexit should mean exactly that - a divorce from the EU - end of story...amen...and goodnight.
I could post umpteen convincing Leave articles myself, but what's the point? I guess people only see things the way they want to see them.
There's arguments to counter arguments and blah, blah, blah.
You could spend an eternity researching this and still end up at square one

Good effing greif, I just about seen it all now.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/ru...li=BBoPWjQ