Scottish Independence (the sequel)

SB what exactly do you mean by dirty tactics from the Better Together campaign?

I thought it was a well thought out and fought out campaign from both sides. Ultimately I think the fear of the unknown may have led to some Scottish voters playing the safer option of remaining with the Union. I actually think they chose the right decision - if I was Scottish and eligible to vote in this referendum I would have followed suit because I feel independence carries far too many variables and is much more of a gamble. At least now the whole UK can move forward with all parties, SNP included, contributing to a better Britain. I don't think you can slate No voters for following what they believe in and choosing what they feel to be a safer option for both their futures and the future of everyone in this country.

I understand you're disappointed but to feel disgusted by your fellow Scots for celebrating staying with the UK is not right in my opinion. I'm sure voters up and down Scotland would have agonized long and hard about such a momentous decison as this - it can't be just bottling it. I also don't agree with your anti BBC sentiments. If Yes had won I'm sure the BBC cameras would have been on hand to capture the unfurling of the flag of Saint Andrew and/or the Royal Scottish Flag. I do understand though your disappointment and it's only natural to feel some regret after losing a dream.

Now I'd like to see a referendum of leaving the EU. The real tyranny comes from Brussels, not Westminster.

(19-09-2014 18:45 )Scottishbloke Wrote:  This morning I was left feeling completely dejected. I've voted SNP all of my life and feel that the ones who voted for them in the last General Election yet voted No have let the Scottish people down badly.

I seen Tommy Sheridan's heartfelt go at the BBC and the dirty tactics played by the better together campaign. He was spot on when he said I don't know what they are celebrating for, this morning for me it was a day of National Disgrace.

Well done to Glasgow and Dundee for showing the balls to vote Yes, what a shame their courage wasn't reflected elsewhere in the Country.

Seeing Scottish people punching the air in delight with the No outcome left me with a feeling of utter disgust. Worse was to follow when a few of them unfurled the Union Jack which the BBC were all too happy to capture.

Back in May when I seen my Dundee United team lose the Scottish Cup Final it left me extremely down but it wasn't a patch on the feelings I have now.

A lot of voters completely bottled it yesterday, well done to the 45% who did believe. With regards to Alex Salmond resigning it's just another bitter pill to swallow for me.

My lifelong dream of Independence is now in ruins. Yesterday we blew what would have been a wonderful achievement to free us from the tyranny that currently exists at Westminster.

While I sympathise with your feeling of dejection you should accept the majority decision with a bit more grace. More people in Scotland disagreed for whatever reason with your stance than agreed and so voted to remain part of the UK.
Where is this tyranny you mention? Are there death squads being sent out from London to hunt down rogue highlanders in some misty glen? Are the Scots being forced to accept rule from a parliament they had not had a vote in electing?
For Tyranny try seeing how people in the Sudan, Rwanda, Syria and Iraq live on a day to day basis.
A non-independent Scotland was voted for by the people living in Scotland. It is therefore not being forced into anything it does not want to do.
Scotland gets a damn site better share of things than the north of England. We don't even get coverage on the national weather by the BBC. They go from Wales to Northern Ireland onto Scotland, bypassing us completely...Now thats an outrage

(19-09-2014 19:10 )bytor Wrote:  Scotland gets a damn site better share of things than the north of England. We don't even get coverage on the national weather by the BBC.

allow me: 'rainy and miserable as fuck!'

job done.

For people like Scottish Bloke democracy is only useful when their point of view wins the day. Face up to the fact that the yes campaign failed miserably to convince even a simple majority that their plan for an independent Scotland was credible.

The warning signs were there and yet the yes voters especially ignored the huge hole in the SNP's plans. If Scotland is indeed the 14th richest country in the world on a per capita basis why did Alex Salmond not want to establish a new currency?

A newly independent nation is limited in its options both economically and politically if it has not got its own currency. Trying to leave the political union of the United Kingdom but still share in the benefits of its currency union was both selfish and disingenuous to say the least.

I'm a left of centre political person yet for most of my life I've lived under Tory governments. Democracy is about the will of the people as a whole and sometimes you're going to be on the losing side. Try losing with some dignity give the self pity a rest. The whole BBC/establishment bias theory is a joke. Scotland has the best deal of the constituent members of the United kingdom and its going to get even better and yet its not enough.

The 55% who voted no are not bottlers. It is possible to be a proud Scot and also feel at home in the United Kingdom. Not everyone succumbs to the simplistic chauvinistic nonsense of empty chest thumping nationalism. The No voters were satisfied at the current deal Scotland gets within the Union and were not prepared to roll the dice with regards to jobs, pensions, etc on the basis of Salmond and Sturgeon's half baked economic figures.

As to the 'tyranny of Westminster' - it might be useful it you could experience real 'tyranny' for a day and realise what a really stupid comment that is. The whole poor little downtrodden Scotland being occupied and ruled by the evil toffs down in London is such a joke its laughable.

(19-09-2014 19:01 )Regenerated Wrote:  Now I'd like to see a referendum of leaving the EU. The real tyranny comes from Brussels, not Westminster.

That referendum campaign could easily get so ugly it'll make the Scottish one look like a teddy bears' picnic.

Watch the banks and big businesses roll out the same prophecies of doom at the dire consequences of leaving the EU on trade and jobs etc : multinational companies threaten to relocate to remain within the EU, City of London jobs forecasted to disappear to Frankfurt etc etc ?

Meanwhile Boris secretly works on his plan to create his "Island" - but not for an airport as we all thought - no he is thinking Blofeld-style : dig a big moat north of London , tow the south east of the country out into the Atlantic and declare it an independent city state tax haven nirvana open to investment from oligarchs of all nationalities

The big banks and businesses would have a fair point - have all the EU haters contemplated the repercussions of leaving the EU? Leaving the biggest free trade area in the world is not the smartest move.

(19-09-2014 19:01 )Regenerated Wrote:  SB what exactly do you mean by dirty tactics from the Better Together campaign?

It's been noted that the Better Together Campaign threw everything they could in order to secure the vote. They preyed on tactics such as having major companies threatening to leave Scotland in the event of a Yes vote due to generous back handers from Westminster.

Employers sent letters out to their employee's informing threatening them if the result is Yes then they could lose their jobs.

As for the BBC, they seemed intent from the start to focus on everything that was negative for a Yes outcome, it was not a balanced output. I pay my TV licence fee for this corporation and they failed to deliver time and time again.

At the moment my feeling is despair and anger, privately I feel let down by the rest of the Scottish people but publicly I will respect them and hold no ill feelings towards them, all I ask is that they don't gloat and that we all work together to help unite a better Scotland.

I am proud of my nation and proud of our achievements and proud that almost half of us were willing to make the bold step forward, not to be.

(19-09-2014 19:10 )bytor Wrote:  Where is this tyranny you mention? Are there death squads being sent out from London to hunt down rogue highlanders in some misty glen? Are the Scots being forced to accept rule from a parliament they had not had a vote in electing?
For Tyranny try seeing how people in the Sudan, Rwanda, Syria and Iraq live on a day to day basis.

Bytor lets not take my comments out of context, you know and I know that we have different levels of tyranny. Thankfully for us in the UK we aren't even close to what other countries have to endure.

If you look at my signature you'll notice that I'm a strong supporter of human rights with the Amnesty International link. I am more than aware of just how fucked up this world is and hope one day that this will change.

This Thread is about Scottish Independence so please take the comments I post in the appropriate context.

Bytor is spot on. Don't use emotive words like tyranny completely out of context please.

Matt read my post again - You'll find I have already answered the question on tyranny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(19-09-2014 17:45 )Matt77 Wrote:  Think you mean 1707.

No, i meant 1603 when James the 1st became King of Scotland and England, uniting the Kingdoms, whatever treaties were signed in 1706 and ratified in 1707.