World Cup 2014 Brasil

New Brazilian Flag

(09-07-2014 15:36 )Goodfella3041 Wrote:  The saddest part of last night's game, in my very humble opinion -- and it will be worse if Germany go on to win -- is what it will do to the England set-up.

After 8 years of "how can we be more like Germany", we had 6 years of "how can we be more like Spain". Now it will lurch back to another 8 years of "we should be more like Germany".

Say what you will about countries like Brazil, France, Germany, Italy. They wax and wane; they have good tournaments and bad. But they always seem to have a defined footballing culture and philosophy. And when things don't pan out, they go back to the drawing board and not only reinvent themselves, but -- in doing so -- they invent something wholly new and unique.

I know that I will be accused of being an irredeemable cynic, but it feels to me like England is always behind the curve. Always fighting the last war, which is to say, always gearing up for the next tournament by trying to mimic what worked in the last one.

Even with this abject humiliation and utter spanking, I would still back Brazil to get to a tournament final again before England does. And that makes me sad

Absolutely spot on about England.

I would swap France with Holland though. France don't really belong in that bracket of nations with a footballing philosophy. France belong in a bracket with Argentina, in that they always have a half decent team, but every so often will produce one of the outstanding footballers of a generation and perhaps win a major honour. Be it Zidane between 98 and 06, or Platini in 84, see also Maradona in 86.

Take these players away and it's debatable that these nations would have the prestige that they currently have. This is also true to a lesser extent of Portugal.

The problem with England is they lack that footballing philosophy, and we've never really boasted a world class footballer. Even when we come close (Gascoigne, Scholes) they, or we fvck it up somehow.

I'll admit that the successful Brazil, Germany, Italy and Holland teams of the past have of course also boasted an outstanding player, but ultimately it was always their style and philosophy that won it for them, rather than being carried by one player.

Apparently it is all Mick Jagger's fault as any team he has backed has lost and he backed Brazil last night

(09-07-2014 17:37 )hugh_g_rection Wrote:  I would swap France with Holland though. France don't really belong in that bracket of nations with a footballing philosophy. France belong in a bracket with Argentina, in that they always have a half decent team, but every so often will produce one of the outstanding footballers of a generation and perhaps win a major honour. Be it Zidane between 98 and 06, or Platini in 84, see also Maradona in 86.

Take these players away and it's debatable that these nations would have the prestige that they currently have. This is also true to a lesser extent of Portugal.

The problem with England is they lack that footballing philosophy, and we've never really boasted a world class footballer. Even when we come close (Gascoigne, Scholes) they, or we fvck it up somehow.

I'll admit that the successful Brazil, Germany, Italy and Holland teams of the past have of course also boasted an outstanding player, but ultimately it was always their style and philosophy that won it for them, rather than being carried by one player.

I'll split the difference with you! I actually think you are right about France and they probably shouldn't be in that bracket. But I wonder if Holland have flattered to deceive. They are actually the mirror image of France in a way. They have a phenomenal development, academy and coaching set-up that seems to consistently spit out world class players, but -- 1988 notwithstanding -- they always seem to come up short in the major tournaments (now, because I have committed that in writing, you can be sure that they will go on to win the world cup!).

It is an interesting point about the balance between team effort and individual talent. Italy is an interesting case in point. Although they have over-relied on Pirlo in the last couple of tournaments, they have generally been a case of the team often (not always) being more than the sum of its parts. Though 1994 was widely considered to be "Baggio's year", I recall Baresi, Bergomi and Maldini putting in some extraordinary performances in that tournament. Zola underperformed and Baggio only hit his stride in the semi-final. Their "star" in 1982 was Paolo Rossi, who was a distinctly average player before and after that tournament. They scratched and clawed their way to the 2000 Euro final with a fantastic defense, some inspired goalkeeping from Toldo, and divine intervention in that semifinal against Holland. Their 1996 World Cup win was -- once again -- a great team effort without any real individual stars. In that whole period, I actually think their best team was the Italia 90 squad, which lost in the semis. And in that case, Salvatore Schillaci took up the Paolo Rossi role -- a journeyman, veteran player, who snuck into the roster, came on as a sub, and then played out of his skin for 5 games.

I mentioned this in a previous post, but Rossi (82), Altobelli (86), Schillaci (90), Baresi/Bergomi (94), Maldini (00), Cannavaro (06) and Pirlo (12) were arguably the individual stars of those overachieving Italian teams. And they were -- to a man -- veteran players that were past their peak at their own clubs, but played a blinder in their last tournament. By contrast, we have players like Shearer, Scholes, Terry, Cole and Owen, who either "retired" themselves or were prematurely put to pasture.

Makes me wonder...

   

While obviously meant to be funny this does speak volumes I feel

Christ, this has been a poor match. Argentina are deathly dull.

(09-07-2014 22:52 )The Robot Devil Wrote:  Christ, this has been a poor match. Argentina are deathly dull.

It depends what you like.

If you love watching Dirk Kuyt cut onto his right foot and then over-hit a cross, then it's a great match!

is van gaal gonna bring krul on again?

(09-07-2014 23:19 )Joey 27 Wrote:  is van gaal gonna bring krul on again?

Not unless they change the rules suddenly to allow 4 substitutions.

i wasn't paying much attention to the match and hadn't realised all 3 subs have been made