Europe, Referendum & Brexit (formerly Europe..IN or OUT??)

Quote:Moreover, the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the EU must make a trade agreement with a country which leaves the EU.

Thought there must be some law or other somewhere.

(18-06-2016 15:22 )wackawoo Wrote:  

(18-06-2016 14:57 )HannahsPet Wrote:  but most european countries that are not in the EU like switzerland do have deals to access the single market. all have to accept free movement of people and have to abide by eu regulations to access the market

even turkey has access to single market but it comes at a cost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_U...for_Turkey

So to have any access to the free market you HAVE to accept free movement as part of the deal?

Interesting.

Does anybody know the root of this free movement and why it came about? What bennefits did the people who dreamed it up think it would have?

Yes it writtern in stone into the EU from its beginning there are 4 free movements of Goods , Services, capital and people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_market

Some out arguments:

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-...withdrawl/

(18-06-2016 14:36 )terence Wrote:  ok that's me, i'm out.

Compassionate Terence.
Unwilling to go into battle against an un-armed man.

Bless you.

^ Problem is when this lot commit suicide we will be collateral damage.

(18-06-2016 15:56 )wackawoo Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450


With small and medium-sized firms freed from EU regulation, there could be a jobs boom. More than 90% of the UK economy is not involved in trade with the EU, yet still bears the burden of these rules, says the Bruges Group. The Eurosceptic think tank claims pulling out of the EU but staying in the EEA

I notice you didn't also quote this paragraph...

"Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to lower-cost EU countries. Britain's large foreign-owned car industry would shift into the EU and sectors linked to EU membership such as aerospace would also suffer. Airbus production could move to France and Germany, pro-EU commentators claim."

(18-06-2016 15:56 )wackawoo Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

With small and medium-sized firms freed from EU regulation, there could be a jobs boom.

The myth that ALL EU regulation is pernicious (and I choose my word carefully) is itself a mendacity. The projected Brexit plan would "throw the baby out with the bath-water". How is there going to be a jobs boom when firms of all sizes are suddenly lumbered with finding all-purpose agreements that were previously agreed upon internationally by us being in the EU? All those pro-worker ideas on maximum hours and safety and etc will become null and void.

Of course, dropping "be nice to workers" EU regulations might be good news for bosses who want to cut corners. The recent news items about BHS and Sports Direct should give you enough evidence of what happens when bosses treat workers like scum (so you can imagine how that could be multiplied across industry in the event of Brexit).

(18-06-2016 16:04 )wackawoo Wrote:  

Quote:Moreover, the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the EU must make a trade agreement with a country which leaves the EU.

Thought there must be some law or other somewhere.

Does it say the trade agreement would not involve tariffs?

(18-06-2016 17:14 )SecretAgent Wrote:  ^ Problem is when this lot commit suicide we will be collateral damage.

I've said this before, this is not the 'lets all agree it's in' thread, poeple have differing opnions. I suspect there are so few out's on here becasue they know what they will get.

Nothing has convinced me yet, there has been some interesting points recently (which is all I ever asked for); but none that hasn't been raised and challanged and countered.

So I ask myself this, why do you think it's so certain all the gloomery IS GOING to happen? What if they were right and it would actually be better for the UK. We are not out of Europe, nobody can pridict the future. For one, I don't believe for an instance that all the banks in the UK would suddenly relocate, that would cost a fortune (finding and buying premises, interviewing and employing thousands of staff).

One thing is certian, we are in the EU now, and we have had a great deal of austerity in the 70's, a boom in the 80's and several recessions, industry (ie mining) and trade unions have been stamped out, a lot of UK assest sold to foreign owners, also privitised, it has also been pointed out on here how many poverty stricken families live in the UK. There has been a lot of people complaining about petty baurocratic rules enforced on the UK from brussels, all these things appear to have been totally forgotten all of a sudden; so, being in the EU doens't see to have been a bowl of cheries either poeple seem to think it is.

(18-06-2016 18:26 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  Does it say the trade agreement would not involve tariffs?

That's were it gets complex; but you yourself said some will and some wont, plus, your 20% tariff example is an invention of yours, which may or may not be valid.

But tarriffs are mentioned in the link above:

Quote:SECond myth: BRITAIN WILL BE EXCLUDED FROM TRADE WITH THE EU BY TARIFF BARRIERS

-The EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries to overcome such tariffs, and is currently negotiating a number of other agreements.

-EU now exempts services and many goods from duties anyway. In 2009 UK charged customs duty of just 1.76% on non-EU imports. This is so low that the EU Common Market is basically redundant as a customs union with tariff walls.