Malaysian Airlines plane "shot down" over Ukraine

(23-07-2014 14:11 )tony confederate Wrote:  Putin's in a trap of his own making. It's difficult to stop supporting the rebels, due to him having cast the West as Russia’s enemy for so long, and having personally vowed to protect ethnic Russians everywhere. Putin would be fiercely criticised at home if he did what the West wants and pulled an about-face to abandon the separatists now.

I see what you're saying but there's hell of a lot of Russians embarrassed by his actions too

Before you know it, he'll be back in Berlin rebuilding the Wall!!

(22-07-2014 22:28 )Tumble_Drier Wrote:  ^^They're turning the screw on Putin.


Meanwhile, the Whitehouse has just had a press briefing. They've said that whilst Russia "created the conditions" for the shoot down (supplied the Missile system, possibly trained the crew) there is no evidence of direct Government involvement and it was probably a mistake.

I reckon they're trying to give Putin a way out here, let's see if he's clever enough to take it.

I'm wondering how they ever managed to reach that conclusion. If the missile came from Russia then surely it is (in my opinion anyway) a foregone conclusion that Russia had a hand in it. Other than we are to suspend arms sales Russia. Bit late in shutting the stable door on that one, eh Dave? It sorts smacks of the situation we had with was it Saudi Arabia a couple of years back or something? we were supplying them arms and we had s a big fall out over it about supplying a regime with weapons. Yet we don't do much to stop the rich Russians buying up British assets do we?

I wonder how long it'll be before Ambramovich gets clobbered with having his assets frozen. (at least that's one way of stopping Chelsea winning the Premiership title!)

(24-07-2014 06:27 )babelover48 Wrote:  If the missile came from Russia then surely it is (in my opinion anyway) a foregone conclusion that Russia had a hand in it.

Yes Russia supplied the missile system, but didn't have "a hand in it" in the sense that they didn't fire the missile that brought the plane down. That's what's being said.

A Malaysian aircrash investigator takes possession of one of MH17's black boxes from the separatist rebels.

Detailed catalog of the crash site: http://graphics.wsj.com/mh17-crash-map/

The plane was shot down by a missile of Russian provenance, fired either by Russia-backed separatists or by the Russian military. Responsibility must lie with Putin, the man who has thrown his weight behind the armed rebellion in Ukraine. The dismemberment of Ukraine is as much his cause as theirs. So any response has to make him hurt, personally, it has to puncture his ego, his pride. And one certain way to hurt him would be to strip from Russia the right to host the 2018 World Cup. Time for FIFA to make a stand.

I don't know much about football, must it must be doubtful whether FIFA would be prepared to make a stand over this. Don't they usually insist that politics and football remain completely separate?

yeah fifa won't get involved for the reasons you said, also i reckon sepp's already banked the check the russians slipped him.

There is always 2 sides to every conflict. Don't forget the Americans were going to arm and supply Syrian rebels including militant muslim elements, is Russia doing anything different in supporting the Rebels in Ukraine?