Re: President Obama

Another damning predicament that exists in the USA is their appalling record when it comes to human rights which is by far the worst in the whole of the western democracies. First off here's a scenario for you, you get accused of a crime you did not commit, are thrown into jail and cannot afford a decent lawyer or bail down to your class and financial circumstances, whilst your in prison you are treated like an animal, you share a cell with at least another 10 or 12 prisoners who will steal, rape and beat you up for no reason whilst the guards happily stand by and watch, and you think hang on a minute aren't prisons supposed to be places of rehabilitation yet this goes on and meanwhile the prisoner turned out to be innocent all along, can he sue the prison aftermath, no can he fuck. Another situation is if you are found guilty for example of first degree murder then the state will kill you but not straight away, no they'll put you on death row for at least 10 to 15 years, rehabilitate you and then kill you, double standards if you ask me and also this violates the 8th amendment of your basic human rights, this is just one example of a country that they call the land of the so-called free.

@ Scottishbloke Does that apply in all States? I think that approach only applies in a few. Not sure but it is a good point it's unbelievable.

@ emmajanefan yes you are right I stand corrected had his majority slashed in senate not lost it thanks

@ McTarzan He did not mis handled it he procrastinated. Egypt is the case in question.
The mid term elections and his losing of the house and reduced majority in senate means major compromises on every bill proposed.His ability to effect change certainly is being impaired because of this.

Thank you to everyone who has participated on this poll so far.
With regards the US Prison system, we have innocent people in prison too and if someone has been put on death row, is really fair to sentence them to death straight away and risk killing an innocent person?
Also, lets not forget what state things were in when Obama took over the Oval Office after Bush.
Lets not also forget, that US could of severed all ties with the UK after the Lockerbie bomber was released on compassionate grounds by the Scottish Parliament.
Having fought alongside US troops in Afghanistan 8-9yrs ago, i'm glad to have them on our side.
Why was killing Bin Laden a bad idea? This was a man who, launched a terrorist attack on 9/11 and showed no compassion for killing 3000 civilians (who were not all americans). Would it of really been a safe decision to of kept Bin Laden alive? I don't think so, but that is just my opinion and we're all entitled to have different opinions.

The killing of Bin Laden out right by the US was wrong because of regardless of who we are dealing with, in a fair and democratic world every man is entitled to a fair trial and to see him brought to justice through the proper channels would have sent out a far stronger message to the world than simply killing him, it would have showed that us in the western world are civilized and treat fellow humans irrespective of the heinous crimes they have committed fairly and would have lightened the case for any kind of revenge attack. Yes what Bin Laden did was pure evil but he was entitled to a defense in the same way that Saddam Hussein was. On the subject of the death penalty US opinion obviously differs from European opinion. Cameron will probably be careful not to bring this subject up even though like most Europeans is against it in all forms and does not and never will support the US policy on the usage of the death penalty. But on the subject of the global economy, spending and preventing terrorism this is a key matter where they will both find common ground on.

I'm all for the death penalty and wish they brought it back here because I beleive that if you are proven beyond doubt of commiting murder, then you should pay with your own life.
The difference between Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden is, Saddam Hussein was a dictator and was in charge of Iraq, which meant he could be charged for War Crimes and Crimes against humanity. Osama Bin Laden was a terrorist and would not of surrendered Suddam Hussein did. Plus, where would they of been secure/safe enough to lock Bin Laden up. In a prison with other suspected/convicted terrorists, a normal prison where other prisoners would kill him or in a prison in country where he could miraculously excape and dissapear.
Like I said before, everyone is entitled to have a different opinion, that is why I signed up for Armed Forces 14yrs ago.

I have never supported Capital Punishment in any shape or form, if we had retained it then the likes of the Guildford 4 would have been hanged by now for a crime that they did not commit, another example of miscarriages of justice was the 1952 hanging of Derek Bentley which has been well documented and even made into a film call "Let Him Have it" so we as a country had blood on our hands back then, once the sentence has been carried out their is no way in going back, one thing that makes me proud to be British is that we abolished that barbaric practice a long time ago in 1964 and as recently as 1998 we signed a treaty forbidding it ever to brought back under any circumstances. There simply is no room for error. Until the USA do likewise I will never fully support or endorse the President.

(25-05-2011 08:52 )sweetsugar007 Wrote:  @ McTarzan He did not mis handled it he procrastinated. Egypt is the case in question.
The mid term elections and his losing of the house and reduced majority in senate means major compromises on every bill proposed.His ability to effect change certainly is being impaired because of this.

On sweetsugar007's point, I'm afraid the facts read very differently to me. In foreign policy terms, Obama squandered much of the goodwill he brought into office (and before any impact of the recent mid-terms).

A fews examples:-

Obama believed that the USA should "turn its face" towards the emerging economies such as China - rather than traditional alliances with the UK and Europe. Perfectly reasonable, but 2+ years into his presidency nothing has been achieved, and America's relationship with China is as awkward as ever. Ironically, a recent Communist party official cited Richard Nixon as the most important US president of recent times.

Obama did nothing significant on the Israel/Palastine conflict (the biggest open wound in the Middle East) for over 2 years, and then makes an ill-timed speech about returning them to the '67 borders. Ironically, while Obama's over here touting the special/essential relationship (he's now rediscovered), Netanyahu's receiving standing ovations in Washington for flatly contradicting him.

During his campaign, Obama repeatedly stated he would close Guantanamo Bay if elected. It's still there, still in business and with at least 1 British Citizen still held without charge.

Having taken almost a year to decide on a military surge in Afghanistan, his administration has done nothing to curb the blatant corruption of Hamid Karzai, his brother, family, extended family and the rest of the Afghan government and its corrupt officials. How many US (and UK) service men and women have been killed/wounded protecting these bandits and sustaining them in power?

He announced a date for military withdrawal from Afghanistan - a serious mistake whatever the political pressures. If the US (and then ourselves) withdraw in the next 24 months, how long will it take for Afghanistan to return to the regime of feuding warlords we found when we first went in? 6 months - less? Just the situation the Taliban have been waiting for - they'll be back in a year and we'll have achieved nothing more than the USSR did a decade earlier.

...the list goes on.

It's obviously all too easy to criticise from the sidelines, but - to me - the gap between Obama's easy, soaring rhetoric (which I personally find rather bland) and what his administration actually delivers is pretty stark - and it will ensure his is a one-term presidency.

Anyway, sorry for the long post and thanks for a great thread. It's nice to talk about something other than tits, ass and why Danica's performances have become so dull - at least for a bit.

Ahh, Danica's performances - the Afghanistan of the Babe Channels Forum - even Obama woundn't want to intervene there (although I'm sure Bill Clinton would give it a go)...

MeT

MeTarzan that was a great and well thought out post, the only thing however that puzzles me is going by everything you have been saying about Obama is how come you voted Yes that Obama is a good leader when your argument would seem to be otherwise and it appears that you have just contradicted yourself in many ways going by the way you voted. But yes I do agree with you this thread is a usual change from discussing titties and babe shows for once.

Not all the Afghan people are Bandits. Having been to Afganistan and met some of the innocent people who have been treated so badly by the Taliban, I can't even begin to describe it.
Also, me being an injured soldier and having lost two of my best friends in the conflict, I am against pulling our troops out before the job is done because then it would of all been for nothing but I can understand where people are coming from.
I was medically discharged from the Army on the 14th of June 2002 after 5yrs and if it wasn't due to my injury plus being to old now to sign up again, I would still go back because people forget the bigger picture, which is to give the Afghan people democracy, a better way of life, a life they've never had.

Obama is a fantastic President for the US in that he barely puts a fun wrong internationally. Sure his people may dislike him, but no other president would have pleased the billions and billions of people world wide that another racist idiot (BUsh) hasn't become the most powerful man in the world.

America was always playing catchup in recognising the world, and for once they can say they have a president with blood links all over the world.

Every country he visits the people love him, and for that countries President/Prime Minister welcome him to please there people. He seems a genuinely nice and intelligent guy that I believe genuinely cares for his people as his health care reform bill was the most selfless move the American people could make to secure the future safety of their nations population.