Guys,
I'd like to know your thoughts as to where our UK union stands in 2022.
Have we reached the point over the last two years where the pandemic has shaped Scotland Wales and Northern individually to claim independence from Westminster? And is our union in a far more precarious state than we actually realise and is it weaker/stronger than that of the Union of the EU or US?
If the the Union was to split, would this make our country weaker or stronger or are we stronger together as one?
Your comments, thoughts and/or ideas about where the Union should be
are welcome.
Wales will be the last to go.
If Westminster can hold onto it, I guess they can still call it a Union...
Westminster will keep stalling on Scottish independence till 2030 when the North sea oil is expected to run out, after that they wont give a fuck about us
Westminster's latest scare tactic is - "Scottish independence: Rejoining EU ‘would lead to checkpoints on border with England’ "
basically, it's a fuckin shit show.
(03-02-2022 11:06 )Sm© Wrote: [ -> ]Westminster's latest scare tactic is - "Scottish independence: Rejoining EU ‘would lead to checkpoints on border with England’ "
So, just moving them from the Irish Sea then.
A very good set of questions posed by LB.
1. I feel it's immaterial whether the pandemic has shaped Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to the point where they could claim independance from Westminster because powerful individuals in those countries would try it anyway.
2. I feel it's immaterial whether the pandemic has shaped Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to the point where they could claim independance from Westminster. Rather it's that Westminster lacks the rigor offered by a genuine opposition.
3. Our union is precarious. It would take a powerful individual to win an election to gain the necessary authority. Any concern about practical difficulies wouldn't put voters off.
4. If our union was to split I would expect Scotland to go first, then Wales with Northern Ireland to hold on provided the Tories needed the votes of the Northern Ireland MP's at Westminster.
5. I'd prefer the UK to be England, Wales and Scotland.
6. I feel that we are stronger together. I thought we were stronger in the EEC too.
Thanks Chrisst from NI. What is it?? something we said?? On a more intellectual level, I think that from a Conservative, Labour, Westminster perspective, the effort to keep Scotland and Wales would be much greater, were it to look like either or both intended to break the link. Ever since the Conservative party in particular said the govt had no selfish or strategic interest in NI, it became nothing more than a numbers game - (don't get hung up with the lazy read across of the population P/C numbers in determining likelihood of UI all the same, by the way) At least the Labour Party has moved to the consent principle rather than a clear unambiguous campaign to secure a UI.
I would bet Scotland will be the first to breakaway. No incentive to stay post Brexit! I agree 100% with you about the small minded decision to leave the EU (in some respects responsible for the louder 'conversation' about the possibility/likelihood of a UI - one reason I don't understand the DUP(ed) position on the trading 'Protocol'). Look at who is taking 'charge' of trying to stop the Russia/Ukraine stand off from tipping over the edge on behalf the EU. We are but a bit player now, unfortunately it seems further securing ourselves to the leash of the USA, while the axis of power may be shifting from one hyper power, to other 'spheres of influence' (maybe no bad thing) Macron clearly has been 'authorised' to act for the EU with - in particular - Germany not agreeing with the USA position.
A bit controversial and unrealistic, but I’ve always thought that the whole country would be better off if we disengaged London from everything else.
Not a city-state, but an honest recognition that London has more in common — both good and bad — with New York, Paris and Singapore than it does with Manchester, Newcastle and Birmingham. National planning, taxation and infrastructure policies make no sense when you try to apply them equally to London and Lincoln at the same time.
So I’m for lots more devolution to all the home countries, plus London.
Then put Prince Andrew in jail, Boris Johnson in the wilderness, and Nigel Farage at the bottom of a river, and my ‘to do’ list of political reforms is complete.
Here are my thoughts. I voted no to independence in 2014 and remain in 2016. However, if/when there is another independence referendum I am 90% of the way to voting yes to independence. For me the change of mind came after the 2019 General Election. I looked at the 2016 and 2019 results maps, and thought Scotland and England are politically different to each other. Given that Scotland and England are politically different from each other the longer we are tied to each other the more resentful we will become of each other. So, for the sake of sanity and peace we embark on different political journeys.
Then COVID started and saw a government in Edinburgh (that, although not perfect) that gave a damn. Whereas, a government in London that just not care at all.
Thirdly, Boris Johnson once written a poem about the Scottish (
http://glendiscovery.com/scots-a-verminous-race.html). Why would any Scottish person with a shred of self respect what to be ruled over by someone who thinks these things of you. Even if Boris Johnson goes, that anti Scottish sentiment/culture will still be there.
The only element of doubt I have is in the practical realities of independence.
^
I voted the same way as you mate, but I too would very likely vote for independence next time (if there is a next time), as long as there was a good plan in place that meant it was legitimately possible and it wouldn't utterly destroy the economy of course.
Westminster and particularly the Tories have proved time and time again (obviously so to everyone in recent years), that as long as their core voters keep them in their jobs, fuck the the rest of us. It's not just the other nations in the union, but the other regions too, full devolution to the other nations and more powers to the regions would be the only thing that would change my mind I think. A federal UK could be a solution...possibly.