US Election & Presidency

I'm not exactly sure what is supposed to be irrational about hating a man who is a racist, misogynist who has been accused of sexual assault by many woman and caught bragging about assaulting woman on tape?

You say we do not have the right to demonise him, we do not demonise him we criticise him for his demonization of other people. He has had to settle many lawsuits over his unfair eviction of African Americans, called for the Central Park Five to receive the death penalty even after they were found innocent, remarked that he would not want a black person counting his money, called Mexicans criminals and rapists and called for a shutdown of Muslims entering the country. Where are these people's right not to be demonized ?

Elected fair and square? Check the popular vote, yes he won the electoral college but it operates on a winner takes all system, all the candidate has to do is win a majority of votes in that state and they receive all of the college votes for that state even. So Trump wins a state with 20 votes with a 50% share, Clinton 45%, 5% other, he receives 20 votes instead of 10 if you are a Democrat in a Red State and vice versa a Republican in a blue state your vote counts for nothing. Can you please explain to me why a winner takes all system that delivers a candidate with 3 million fewer votes to victory is fair?

Finally his comments are not just crude, vulgar and offensive but they are dangerous. Time and again he has tried to undermine the free press, an integral part of a democratic society, calling them Fake News and even a threat to their free society. He has specifically targeted CNN, he posted a video of him attacking Vince McMahon in the WWE with the CNN logo on his face, he did the same thing with an image of someone being run over, and him stamping on the CNN logo. In his fake news awards he called them the worst of the worst.

Last week police in Michigan arrested a man for making numerous calls to CNN headquarters in Atlanta Georgia and threatening to kill them. He said "I am coming to gun you all down. Fuck you, you fucking n****rs", "I am coming for you CNN. I'm smarter than you. More powerful than you. I have more guns than you. More man power. Your cast is about to get gunned down" and "Fake news I am coming to gun you down". Gee I wonder where he got that last one from

Now perhaps in this country this might seem like idle threats but in a country where there is over 30 million guns and minimal background checks leading to a mass shooting every day. This is deadly serious, pun intended. Right wingers whenever there is a shooting want to take focus off guns and onto mental health, well lets talk about mental health. How do you think a person who has ill mental health would react to the type of propaganda put out by Trump over fake news and its threat to democracy? And what might happen if a person of ill mental health has access to an assault rifle because he can so easily obtain one and is shown images of the President of the United States supporting the attacking of a news outlet?

We don't need to imagine, it happened in this country. The Right wing media's constant fear mongering over immigrants coming to this country and living in social housing led to the murder of Jo Cox by the terrorist Thomas Mair as he feared the loss of his council house to immigrants and so took his fear out on his pro-EU and therefore pro freedom of movement and pro immigrant MP. It's only a matter of time before it happens in the United States

So please tell me what is so irrational about hating this man? When a President of the United states shows so much disregard for his own citizens that he freely and willfully endangers his lives by perpetuating fear that may effect vulnerable people I say

FUCK BALANCE

(23-01-2018 23:53 )lancealot790 Wrote:  The truth is that the liberal elite cannot stand the fact that the so called perfect candidate lost the election fair and square, clinton was supposed to be the final piece of the puzzle, a female POTUS.

I don't think anyone here thinks Clinton was the perfect candidate. In fact, show me one person who doesn't think she was the worst possible candidate they could've fielded.
Here's a newsflash for you. The election was in 2016. Trumps been President for over a year. He's being judged on his own actions. Clinton is irrelevant now.

(23-01-2018 23:53 )lancealot790 Wrote:  i fully accept that some of the things he says are not befitting of the office he holds, he is at times vulgar, crude and even offensive but that does not mean people have the right to demonise him.

The question was specific. Don't dance round it like a dodgy politician, give a specific answer.

Specific question?

(24-01-2018 17:16 )southsidestu Wrote:  Elected fair and square? Check the popular vote, yes he won the electoral college but it operates on a winner takes all system, all the candidate has to do is win a majority of votes in that state and they receive all of the college votes for that state even. So Trump wins a state with 20 votes with a 50% share, Clinton 45%, 5% other, he receives 20 votes instead of 10 if you are a Democrat in a Red State and vice versa a Republican in a blue state your vote counts for nothing. Can you please explain to me why a winner takes all system that delivers a candidate with 3 million fewer votes to victory is fair?

Well, it IS their system. They developed it to deal with the iniquities of numbers, and if it works the way it did in 2016, what do you think they could do differently? The chief argument against PR/every vote counts is that it gives power to lesser parties eg Ross Perot back in the day. Their system is designed to deliver a straight "A beat B" result. They got that.

Quote:Last week police in Michigan arrested a man for making numerous calls to CNN headquarters in Atlanta Georgia and threatening to kill them. He said "I am coming to gun you all down. Fuck you, you fucking n****rs", "I am coming for you CNN. I'm smarter than you. More powerful than you. I have more guns than you. More man power. Your cast is about to get gunned down" and "Fake news I am coming to gun you down". Gee I wonder where he got that last one from

I obviously would not condone gun threats, even to babe show companies, but Donald Trump did not invent Fake News, nor did he discover it. It's like Neptune, it was already there before someone pointed it out

Quote:And what might happen if a person of ill mental health has access to an assault rifle because he can so easily obtain one and is shown images of the President of the United States supporting the attacking of a news outlet?

There actually was a major gun shooting in I think Kentucky the other day.
It didn't make the news very much.
Maybe nobody blamed Trump for it?

The Silent Majority Wrote:Here's a newsflash for you. The election was in 2016. Trumps been President for over a year. He's being judged on his own actions. Clinton is irrelevant now.

Tell her that. And the Democrats.
Once they start fighting for the future, let alone the present, then the better all round. But at the moment they have nothing (and no-one) to offer as an alternative.

The politicians who won’t let go of Clinton are actually the Republicans and Trump. Just look at how frequently they mention her. Regarding the Kentucky school shooting Trump said nothing until a few hours ago when he put out a reasonable tweet. In the US he’s been criticised for name called Democrats yesterday when it would have been better for him to focus on Kentucky in a tweet.

Trump himself has been the purveyor of fake news for years - the birther stuff is an example but he also used to call radio shows and newspapers pretending to be someone else giving stories about Donald Trump - they have him on tape!

Perhaps someone could also explain why he has felt it necessary to lie over 2000 times in his first year. The fact is if he disagrees with a news article he labels it fake news but lies daily himself

I strongly suspect that nothing trump achieves will ever be good enough for some people, even if he brought about world peace and ended global poverty people would still bring up "pussygate".

(24-01-2018 23:02 )lancealot790 Wrote:  I strongly suspect that nothing trump achieves will ever be good enough for some people, even if he brought about world peace and ended global poverty people would still bring up "pussygate".

So far he seems to be more intent on starting wars and of course poverty is what happens in shithole countries. “Pussygate” is simply an example of what the man is like. There are many many examples - just listen to how he talked about women on radio shows (including his daughter) oh and I doubt Prince Harry will have forgotten he said he’d bang Princess Diana. I suppose reportedly paying a porn star $130,000 to keep quiet (he’s been remarkably quiet about that) is a mark of how upstanding and fine a man he is

What i think they could do differently is scrap winner takes all and assign college votes based on the proportion of the popular vote that way peoples votes actually matter. I wouldn't necessarily say it gives power to people like Perot because Presidential election is for the executive branch only, the electoral vote does not apply to congress and how you govern. There is no power share, no coalition in the executive branch it's a race if you come in first you win the gold medal you don't share it with second because they were just behind you. They got a straight A beat B result but B is the President

Yes the term fake news was about before Trump but that is weak sauce, there is no doubt that Trump as perpetuated it to a new level, that is why it was the Collins dictionary word/phrase of the year for 2017 and not 2016,15,14 etc

The Kentucky shooting probably didn't make the news much because it happens so much in The US that we are becoming desensitized to these kinds of events, as for the shooters motives nothing has been revealed so I am not going to comment on it

(24-01-2018 22:33 )lancealot790 Wrote:  Specific question?

(23-01-2018 15:11 )The Silent Majority Wrote:  where do you stand on the sexual misconduct allegations? If Weinstein's not fit to run a film company, is Trump fit to run a country?
Or does he get a free pass because he's not one of the 'liberal elite'?

what about this 'Dopes Defiance' thing is it a form o f dementia?